In this, the final episode of Noncompliant, I spoke with Shannon Rosa, editor of Thinking Person’s Guide to Autism. She shared her memories of her good friend Steve Silberman, author of the groundbreaking history of autism & the neurodiversity movement, Neurotribes, which featured Shannon and her family. We talked about Steve and his legacy for our community.
This episode features clips from the first episode of Noncompliant, where Steve talks about autism and his work, and includes a closing note of thanks to Noncompliant listeners as the podcast ends.
Bio Shannon Rosa is senior editor of Thinking Person’s Guide to Autism, an autism information and advocacy nexus. Her writing can be found in The Washington Post and the anthology Autistic Community and the Neurodiversity Movement, among other places. She lives near San Francisco, California, with her husband and adult autistic son.
I had an amazing conversation with Dr. Nancy Marshall, a therapist and researcher, who previously worked as Child and Youth Counselor in Toronto public schools. We discussed her new, qualitative research on autistic people’s experiences with and perception of ABA. We also talked about the impact of the neurodiversity movement on autism services, and the evolution of new supports and educational practices that are neuro-affirming.
Listen to the podcast by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites like Spotify, ApplePodcasts, Pandora, etc
Bio Nancy Marshall is a registered social worker and youth worker who holds a PhD in Education from York University, Toronto. She has close to 20 years experience as a Child and Youth Worker (CYW) supporting autistic children, youth, and families with neuro-affirming and relational approaches in a variety of settings, mainly in special education settings and one-on-one counselling settings. Currently, she works as a child therapist at Ripple Effect Children’s Services in Toronto, Ontario and as a Course Director at York University teaching Inclusion, Disabilities, and Education to preservice K to 12 teacher candidates. Her mixed methods doctoral research examined the impact of ABA on the wellbeing of autistic people using survey analyses and stories from lived experiences.
Image courtesy of the Alliance Against Seclusion & Restraint
I was honoured to speak with the amazing Guy Stephens, founder of the Alliance Against Seclusion & Restraint about what’s new in human rights advocacy for autistic & developmentally disabled students.
AASR has a groundbreaking new program, Reframing Behaviour, in partnership with the Crisis Prevention Institute, rolling out across America–neuroscience-based training for educators to eliminate seclusion & stop the traumatization of our special ed students.
Listen to the podcast by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites like Spotify, ApplePodcasts, Pandora, etc
Bio Guy Stephens is one of the best-known parent advocates in our community. Through his work at AASR, he has been helping to inform changes in policy and practice to reduce and eliminate the use of restraint and seclusion in schools and other settings. Guy promotes trauma-informed, neuroscience-aligned, collaborative approaches to working with kids–and in just a few years he’s led AASR to become a leader in the field, presenting their work across North America with groundbreaking education for educators, as well as toolkits for parents. Guy also currently serves on the board of directors for The Arc of Maryland and PDA North America.
In this episode we spoke with Julie Roberts, the founder of the Therapist Neurodiversity Collective. We discussed her new book, The Gold Standard Fallacy, a critique of the ABA industry, as well as new and better approaches to autism services.
Listen to the podcast by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites like Spotify, ApplePodcasts, Pandora, etc
Read the transcript, below the audio.
Bio Julie Roberts, M.S., CCC-SLP, Julie Roberts, M.S., CCC-SLP, founded the Therapist Neurodiversity Collective in 2018. She is the author of The Gold Standard Fallacy of ABA: A Reference Guide for Therapists, Educators, & Parents. She is a formally late-identified Autistic Speech-Language Pathologist (SLP) specializing in neurodiversity-paradigm-aligned approaches to therapy and education, particularly in autistic social communication.
I was so excited to speak with Dr. Ryan, a trailblazer in Canadian autism research! Her work was the first participatory autism research in Canada and it has inspired more. We talk about inclusion, autonomy, research methods, our collaborative work and how to improve services for intellectually disabled people in Canada’s west and throughout the world.
Listen to the audio below or on streaming services like Spotify, ApplePodcasts & Pandora. Read the transcript below the audio file.
Transcript coming soon!
Bio Jackie Ryan is an autistic autism researcher with a PhD in Rehabilitation Science from the University of Alberta. Her recent doctoral research was about understanding self-determination and autonomy from the perspective of autistic adults with intellectual disabilities, using a community-based participatory research approach. Included in her research was the preparation of the Research 101 open-access training to build capacity for autistic people to collaborate more in autism research.
Professor Carl Elliott’s new book The Occasional Human Sacrifice, is about whistleblowers in medicine. In this episode, we discuss the whistleblowers at Willowbrook, a residential institution for autistic and developmentally disabled people that was exposed for human rights abuses in 1972. We also talk about the experience of being a whistleblower and its impact on mental health, as well as strategies for reporters and whistleblowers.
Listen to the podcast by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites like Spotify, ApplePodcasts, Pandora, etc
Read the transcript, below the audio.
Cw for institution survivors: Abuses in residential institutions discussed at 5:30-11:05 and 32:45-37:03
Bio Carl Elliott is a professor in the Department of Philosophy at the University of Minnesota. He’s a native of Clover, South Carolina, where his father was a family doctor and his mother was a librarian. Before moving to Minnesota, he taught at McGill University in Montreal. Among the awards he has received for his work are a Guggenheim Fellowship, a National Endowment for the Humanities Public Scholar Award, and the Maguire Chair in Ethics and American History at the US Library of Congress.
I was thrilled to talk with Tony Spiridakis and Alex Plank about the new film Ezra, which Tony wrote and produced alongside director Tony Goldwyn, and which Alex associate produced, acted and consulted on. (Read my review of Ezra here.) We take a look behind the scenes at how the film was developed and produced on set, and how the film is aspirational for new films with autistic characters.
Listen to the podcast by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites like Spotify, ApplePodcasts, Pandora, etc
Tony Spiridakis is an award-winning screenwriter, director, producer, and actor with nearly four decades in the film and television industry. He is a father of two and a strong advocate for autism awareness. He supports a variety of autism-related schools and organizations, including The Help Group, The Center School, Birch Family Services, Exceptional Minds, and We’ve Got Friends.
Alex Plank is a producer and actor, known for Ezra, The Good Doctor, The Bridge and other works. He is also well known in our community as the founder of Wrong Planet, an online community for autistic people and a place where a lot of autistic people found each other and found out more about themselves. Alex is an associate producer of Ezra and consulted on the film from a neurodiversity perspective.
I had such a great conversation with artist and teacher Stephane Hartl about parenting autistic children in a world that wasn’t built for them. How do parents manage a new diagnosis, advocate at school and navigate the transition to adulthood? What needs to shift in our society—and how can we help to shift it?
Listen by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites likeSpotify, StitcherorApplePodcasts.
While the podcast is on a brief hiatus as I finish my book (yay!), I’m sharing this interview that Shawn Pickard hosted with me for Voices for Abilities radio. We discussed how Canadian autism policy needs to move from a charity perspective to a rights perspective and how the inclusion and neurodiversity movements are working for the changes that autistic people & families need.
Listen to the podcast by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites like Spotify, Stitcher or ApplePodcasts.
Bio Anne Borden King is a Toronto-based podcaster, writer and human rights advocate. Her work has appeared in the New York Times, Healthy Debate, FactKeepers and Thinking Person’s Guide to Autism, among other publications. She is the host of Noncompliant, a popular podcast about neurodiversity. A co-founder of Autistics for Autistics, the Canadian autistic self-advocacy organization, she has presented before the United Nations and the Canadian Senate among others, on autism policy.
Her upcoming book, The Children Do Not Consent: The search for autism’s “cure”—and the kids who pay the cost will be published in 2023.
I spoke with Dr. Molly Colvin and Dr. Tannahill Glen about their new book, Altered Trajectories: How the COVID-19 Pandemic Impacted Children’s Education, Mental Health and Neurodevelopment,co-authored with Dr. Jennifer Linton Reesman. We discussed the educational impact of school closures, as well as the mental health impact on kids. A crucial topic as we look for solutions today, both within and outside education.
Listen to the podcast by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites like Spotify, Stitcher or ApplePodcasts.
Bios
Dr. Molly Colvin is director of the Learning and Emotional Assessment Program (LEAP) at Massachusetts General Hospital and an Assistant Professor of Psychology at Harvard Medical School. She is also Co-Director of the Child Psychology Internship program at MGH.
Dr. Tannahill Glen is a clinical neuropsychologist at the MD Anderson Cancer Center. She specializes in diagnosis and treatment planning for neurologic conditions with impact on thinking, mood and behavior. Most recently her publications have centered on the neuropsychological consequences of prolonged pandemic related educational disruption.
Julie Kingstone & Keenan Wellar, co-leaders of LiveWorkPlay
I had the honour of speaking with Keenan Wellar, founder of LiveWorkPlay about the organization’s work helping the community welcome and include people with intellectual disabilities, autistic persons, and those with a dual diagnosis in housing, work and leisure. LiveWorkPlay is a model for the paradigm shift that is needed in developmental services!
Listen to the podcast by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites like Spotify, Stitcher or ApplePodcasts.
Bio Keenan Wellar has served as Co-Leader and Director of Communications for charitable organization LiveWorkPlay since 1997. LiveWorkPlay helps the community welcome and include people with intellectual disabilities and autistic persons to live, work, and play as valued citizens. The organization has earned numerous accolades, including Ottawa Board of Trade’s Best Non-Profit of 2019. Keenan serves as LiveWorkPlay event host as well as media spokesperson. He currently appears monthly on the Weekly Roundup show on 580 CFRA talk radio .
I spoke with Dr. Andrew Whitehouse from the University of Western Australia about autistic life, gut hype, same-foods, the problem of pseudoscience and the shifting nature of autism research.
Listen to the podcast by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites like Spotify, Stitcher or ApplePodcasts.
Bio Dr. Whitehouse is the Angela Wright Bennett Professor of Autism Research and the Director of Clini-Kids at the Telethon Kids Institute. He is Professor of Autism Research at the University of Western Australia and Research Strategy Director of the Cooperative Research Centre for Living with Autism (Autism CRC). He has published over 300 peer-reviewed journal articles and is an advisor to State and Commonwealth Governments on policies relating to autistic children. He was awarded a Eureka Prize for his research and in 2023, he was a Western Australian of the Year award winner.
I spoke with vaccine researcher and expert Dr. Paul Offit, whose book Autism’s False Prophets explores false narratives about autism, including the myth that the MMR vaccine causes autism. We talked about that history, as well as the present challenge of the current anti-vaccine movement and the need to speak the truth, even when it’s complicated.
Listen to the podcast by playing the audio file below, or on streaming sites like Spotify, Stitcher or ApplePodcasts. Transcript below.
Bio Dr. Offit is the Director of the Vaccine Education Center and an attending physician in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. He is an award-winning and internationally recognized expert in the fields of virology and immunology, and is a past member of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices to the CDC and currently a member of the Food and Drug Administration Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee.
Bio Matthew Smith is a professor at the University of Strathclyde and the Centre for the Social History of Health and Healthcare (CSHHH) in Scotland. He is the author of The First Resort: The History of Social Psychiatry in the United States (Columbia UP, 2023). He has also authored many articles and several other books and monographs including: Hyperactive, The Controversial History of ADHD;Another Person’s Poison, A History of Food Allergy; An Alternative History of Hyperactivity; and Pathologies and Politics, Dietary Innovation and Disease from the Nineteenth Century(co-edited by David Gentilcore).
I spoke with Guy Stephens, executive director of theAlliance Against Seclusion and Restraint (AASR) and Chantelle Hyde, lead Canadian Volunteer with The Alliance Against Restraint and Seclusion and co-founder of theCanadian Coalition Against Seclusion and Restraint in Schools, founded early in 2023. We discussed the high prevalence of the use of seclusion rooms (isolation rooms) and restraints on students with disabilities and the need for policy action to protect their human rights.
Listen to the podcast on the audio link below. Also available on Spotify, Stitcher or iTunes.
Guy Stephens is the founder and executive director of theAlliance Against Seclusion and Restraint(AASR), a non-profit organization he started in 2019. AASR is a community of over 20,000 parents, self-advocates, teachers, school administrators, paraprofessionals, attorneys, related service providers, and others working together to inform changes in policy and practice to reduce and eliminate the use of punitive discipline and outdated behavioral management approaches and end the school-to-prison pipeline. The vision of the Alliance Against Seclusion and Restraint is safer schools for students, teachers, and staff.
Chantelle Hyde is the lead Canadian Volunteer with the Alliance Against Restraint and Seclusion. With the support of her husband Sheldon, Chantelle became an active advocate in New Brunswick and now nationally against restraint and seclusion after learning that their daughter was being locked in a room at school. Chantelle has been getting the word out across Canada, most recently beingfeatured on W5, an investigative series on Canada’s CTV News, in their investigative report on seclusion and restraint. She is also co-founder of theCanadian Coalition Against Seclusion and Restraint in Schools.
Today I spoke with Julie Roberts, founder ofTherapist Neurodiversity Collective(TNDC). We talked about the ABA industry’s troubling attempts to dominate autism services and funding, as well as the culture shift needed to increase support for neurodiversity-affirming autism supports and services.
Listen to the podcast on the audio link below. Also available on Spotify, Stitcher or iTunes.
Bio Julie Roberts, a formally late-identified Autistic woman, is a Speech-Language Pathologist, neurodiversity educator and activist who foundedTherapist Neurodiversity Collectivein 2018 andPublic School Neurodiversity Collectivein 2022. Her professional experiences include private practice ownership for 7 years, and being a multi-state Clinical Director, and National Field Director of Corporate Compliance for one of the largest post-acute rehab companies in the U.S. She currently works in her favorite setting: the U.S. public school system. Julie’s articles and educational resources have reached over three-quarters of a million people.
I wrote this short spoken word about the experience of grief after all we’ve been through in the pandemic. It’s really just a story, without a message except: we need to talk about our feelings, perhaps now more than ever.
Listen to the podcast on the audio link below. Also available on Spotify,StitcheroriTunes.
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Bio Alan Levinovitz is associate professor of religious studies at James Madison University. He specializes in classical Chinese thought, as well as the intersection between religion and science. His most recent book, Natural, explores how the mistake of worshipping nature can lead to pseudoscience and injustice. We’re going to talk about the book today, in the context of neurodiversity, and also about the ideas of “natural immunity” and “natural medicine” that arose in response to the pandemic.
“Basically they’re slowly being poisoned with a corrosive agent.” It is difficult to hear about what happens to children who are trapped by the so-called bleach cult, a multi-level marketing scheme that has spread across the continents, promising “cures” for everything from broken bones and cancer to Covid-19 and autism.
The 4 leaders of a major MMS business are now in jail, awaiting trial on federal charges. What is next for their trial—and for the children, as the MMS continues to proliferate and regulators begin to act to stop their crimes?
Listen to the podcast on the audio link below. Also available on Spotify, Stitcher or iTunes.
Melissa Eaton, a parent of an autistic child, became aware autistic children were being abused with harmful pseudoscientific and unregulated treatments in 2014, after her son was diagnosed. She joined other activists who were campaigning against it and she is one of the key figures in the movement to get phony MMS “bleach for autism” treatments banned, among others.
Her work has beenfeatured on NBCand other media and she recently co-wrote anOpEd for the New York Timesabout the impact of MMS marketers on the Covid crisis. She has worked tirelessly, giving her time and energy for free to stop autism pseudoscience. Because of her efforts, the movement has made many strides in the uphill battle to get our regulators to recognize the human rights of autistic children and protect them.
I had an amazing conversation with University of Washington virologist Dr Alex Greninger, whose team innovated one of the earliest Covid tests. We talked about how they developed the test; public health policy; the current monkeypox crisis; other viruses & “the 2022 effect”; and the virological and sociological implications of the pandemic since 2020.
Listen to the podcast on the audio link below. Also available on Spotify,Stitcher or iTunes.
Bio Dr Greninger is the Larry Corey Assistant Professor in the Department of Laboratory Medicine and Pathology, Assistant Director of the clinical virology laboratories at the University of Washington Medical Center, and a board-certified clinical pathologist. He earned an MS in Biological Sciences/Immunology from Stanford, a Master’s in Epidemiology from Cambridge, an MD/PhD from University of California San Francisco, and completed his laboratory medicine residency at the University of Washington.
My guest this episode is Alicia Broderick, author of the new book The Autism Industrial Complex: How Branding, Marketing, and Capital Investment Turned Autism Into Big Business. Her book traces the cultural, political, and economic history of autism. We talk about the history of autism services, how industry greed often gets in the way of useful approaches that can help families and some advice for families of newly diagnosed kids on how to find the best approaches and sift through all the hype.
Listen to the podcast by pressing Play on the audio file below. Also available on Spotify, Stitcher or iTunes. Read the transcript at the link below the audio file
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In this episode I speak with the amazing Lei Wiley Mydske, founder of the neurodiversity library movement and creator of the Neurodivergent Narwals. We talk about neurodiversity libraries (including how to start one!), community-building, disability justice, activism, hope and more.
Listen to the podcast at the link below. Also available on Spotify, Stitcher or iTunes.
Bio
Lei is a writer and artist, creator of the Neurodivergent Narwhals, co-director of neurodiversitylibrary.org, and founder of the neurodiversity library movement. They are the Community Outreach Coordinator at the Autistic Women & Nonbinary Network and a contributor to the group’s anthology “Sincerely, Your Autistic Child”. Lei has presented at a range of conferences and gatherings on autistic advocacy and neurodiversity libraries in the community. Lei is the co-owner of Stanwood Tattoo Company in Stanwood Washington, which also hosts a neurodiversity library.
Technical note
There were a couple tech glitches in this episode, apologies!
Podcast update
Noncompliant is mostly on hiatus until 2023.
I spoke with autistic advocate Ryan Hendry about Spectrum10K, a currently-proposed project by UK business interests to collect DNA data on autistic children and adults for a database to sell to companies for commercial ventures. Ryan and I discussed the ethical implications of the project and others like it. We also talked about activism being welcoming to new members of the community.
Listen to the podcast via the audio file below, or on Spotify, Stitcher or iTunes here.
Read the transcript at the link below the audio file.
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Bio
Ryan is a 27 year old Autistic and ADHD advocate from Carrick fergus, Northern Ireland. Whilst Ryan’s advocacy covers a wide range of topics relating to Autism and ADHD, he is particularly focused upon the issues that Autistic People face when finding employment, as well as issues that particularly affect young people between the ages of 16-21.
I had an amazing conversation with Drs Anila D’Mello and Liron Rozenkrantz from MIT about their research review and other work about autism, rationality and cognition!
Listen to the episode by clicking the audio file below or on Spotify, Stitcher or iTunes here.
February 3, 2020 — McGovern Institute for Brain Research at MIT. Photo by Caitlin Cunningham Photography.
Anila D’Mello is a cognitive neuroscientist interested in social cognition and language. She is currently a postdoctoral researcher in the Department of Brain and Cognitive Sciences at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology where she uses neuro imaging to examine how the brain learns from previous experiences to inform future behavior. She also uses personalized study designs to promote strengths-based approaches to studying social cognition and language in autism.
Liron Rozenkrantz
Liron Rozenkrantz is a neuroscientist interested in the role of beliefs and expectations on cognition and well-being. She is a postdoctoral researcher at the Simons Center for the Social Brain and conducts her research at the MIT Brain and Cognitive Sciences Department. Liron has been studying perception and cognition in children and adults with autism for the past 7 years. Her current line of research looks at “enhanced rationality” in autism and how autistic individuals seem to be less susceptible to cognitive biases.
Note The Noncompliant podcast is taking a break from new episodes. To access previous episodes and other content, as well as updates on the podcast and the book, please visit this website.
In this episode, we discuss neurodiversity in law and the workplace, autistic hyperfocus and Haley’s upcoming book, The Young Autistic Adult’s Independence Handbook (launching November 2021 & available by preorder)!
Listen to the episode at the audio link below or on Spotify, Stitcher or iTunes here.
In this episode, I talk with Professors Kristen Bottema-Beutel and Micheal Sandbank, who have done a systematic review and meta-analysis of 151 group design studies of interventions for young autistic children. For this work, Dr. Sandbank was awarded the Young Investigator Award in 2021 from the International Society of Autism Research. Drs Bottema-Beutel and Sandbank have also done further studies into conflicts of interest (COIs) in autism research. Among their findings are that COIs are prevalent in several areas of autism research. They also found that ABA researchers, who frequently had conflicts of interest, reported these conflicts as rarely as 2 percent of the time.
We discuss what conflicts of interest are, the teams’ findings and some of the implications for autism research going forward.
Listen to the audio at the link below or on Stitcher or iTunes here. Read the transcript, below audio file.
Photographed for Boston College by Caitlin Cunningham
Kristen Bottema-Beutel is an Associate Professor in the Lynch School of Education and Human Development at Boston College. Her research focuses on social and language development, and social interaction dynamics in autistic children and youth. She is interested in pairing qualitative and quantitative methods to better characterize autistic communication and sociality, and in developing community-based strategies to support meaningful engagement of autistic students. More recently, she has explored metascience topics such as researcher ethics and research quality in intervention research for autistic children. Dr. Bottema-Beutel is the director of the autism specialization at LSEHD, a program that prepares future special educators to support autistic students.
Micheal Sandbank is an Assistant Professor of Early Childhood Special Education at The University of Texas at Austin. She researches social communication and language interventions for young children with disabilities. Dr. Sandbank is the lead researcher on Project AIM , a scoping systematic review and meta-analysis of group design studies of interventions for young children on the autism spectrum. She was awarded the Young Investigator Award in 2021 for this work, from the International Society of Autism Research.
In this episode, I talk with Occupational Therapist Greg Santucci about the problems with ABA from his perspective as a practitioner, as well as new and better approaches in schools and the challenges of the post-pandemic period in education. An interesting and inspiring conversation!
Listen to the podcast at the audio link below or on Stitcher or iTunes here.
Read the transcripts, attached below the audio link.
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Bio
Greg Santucci is a Pediatric Occupational Therapist and the Founding Director of Power Play Pediatric Therapy. He has been an OT for over 20 years, and currently is a Supervisor of Occupational Therapy at Children’s Specialized Hospital in New Jersey. Greg is the creator of the Model of Child Engagement and has been lecturing nationally for over a decade on topics related to sensory processing, child development, behavior and best practices in the public schools. He has dedicated his career to promoting neurodevelopmentally-informed, relationship-based interventions to help parents and teachers support children of all abilities and learning styles.
In this episode, we discuss the basics of stem cells, medical tourism, false claims about stem cells as an autism treatment, bioethical issues within the field of stem cells and methodological issues in autism research—with discussion of Duke University’s Marcus Center for Autism and The Stem Cell Institute of Panama among others.
This is such an informative podcast for anyone who wants to understand what’s going on with stem cell marketing and the autism industry. Thanks to Professors Snyder and Turner for their time.
Jeremy Snyder is a Professor in the Faculty of Health Sciences at Simon Fraser University. His background is in Philosophy and his research focuses on public health ethics.
Leigh Turner is an Associate Professor at the University of Minnesota Center for Bioethics, School of Public Health, and College of Pharmacy. Turner’s current research addresses ethical, legal, and social issues related to stem cells and regenerative medicine products. He is a co-editor of Risks and Challenges in Medical Tourismand The View from Here: Bioethics and the Social Sciences.
Professors Turner and Synder have collaborated on research and writing about stem cell tourism, including direct to consumer stem cell clinics that claim to treat autism, including the following:
John Summers’ recent expose in The Nation looks at the relationship between private equity companies and the autism service Applied Behaviour Analytics (or ABA) in Massachusetts, where he lives.
In this episode, John and I talk about the business of ABA and the problematic industries built around autism. His analysis is incredibly key to understanding this industry. Don’t miss it!
Listen to the episode at the audio link below or on Stitcher or iTunes here.
Biography:John Summers is Founder and President of Lingua Franca Media, Inc. He has a Ph.D. in intellectual history and has written, taught and presented extensively on topics in culture and history. His recent expose in The Nation looks at relationships between private equity companies and a form of autism service: Applied Behaviour Analytics (or ABA).